util.promised - Callbacks and async/await

With async/await landing in v8 callback users should not have their workflows harmed.

I'm wondering if core should offer a util.promised method that wraps a callback returning method in such a way it can be used with async/await - effectively allowing non-promise users interact with async/await. It would work similarly to Promise.fromCallback:

async function doBar() {
    var result = await promised(fs.readFile)("hello.txt");
}

I'm not sure about the name since promised might come off as polarizing to callback users who would not want to be aware of the internals of async/await using promises.

Also, it's worth mentioning it doesn't have to return an actual promises but rather just a thenable since those are consumed by async/await.

We may also consider that this wrapper should cast returned promises from the wrapped API into native promises — to make it easier to consume promises from, e.g., knex, if one doesn't want knex's bluebird Promises to propagate through their code.

Marking this as "not-blocking" for now. If anyone objects, please let me know and I'll be happy to change it!

What about asAwaitable? And talk about awaitables instead of promises.

What about just awaitable. I'm not sure it should assimilate thenables - a thenable can already be awaited, so they should just pass through. Assimilation is taken care of by Promise.resolve().

const get = awaitable(function(url, cb) {
  request(url, cb);
});

const get2 = awaitable(get);

get === get2; // true because get is already thenable

async function go () {
 const data = await get("http://example.com/");
 return data;
}

Yes, awaitable and awaiters instead of promises sounds like very good terminology to me. We don't need a full promise implementation or actual promises at all for this :)

So... you're basically (almost) saying that you want bluebird's Promise.promisify(fn) in core.

I think it's a bit silly to avoid the word "promise" since that's fundamentally what async/await is about – e.g. an async function is just a function that returns a promise. Also, the word "promise" will be inevitable when writing async/await code:

// `Promise.all` has replaced the now-defunct `await *`
var results = await Promise.all(arrayOfPromises);

So... you're basically (almost) saying that you want bluebird's Promise.promisify(fn) in core.

Not at all. promisifys goal is to convert a callback API to a promises one. This is to get async/await working with callback APIs.

I think it's a bit silly to avoid the word "promise" since that's fundamentally what async/await is about

Technically we could have an Awaitable.all but I do agree that's kind of silly. We really want to accommodate callback users so they don't get "left behind" in the past. I think we need more feedback from these users.

Yes, we do.

The way I see it, the vast majority of people who aren't using Promises would not use async functions either because they either

Don't know enough to progress beyond the basics of what the tutorials taught them
Are forced to support browsers without Promise support (and thus, without async/await support)

There probably are cases where people just choose (for some reason) to not use Promises in their code, be it by technical debt or a general dislike for Promises. If that's the only audience we're aiming at, I don't think it's worth the effort of putting it into core. Just use a library or implement it yourself.

@MadaraUchiha

@MadaraUchiha

If that's the only audience we're aiming at, I don't think it's worth the effort of putting it into core. Just use a library or implement it yourself.

There are plenty of people who choose not to use promises. These people should be able to enjoy async/await and making sure they have a good programming experience when async/await lands is a priority.

@benjamingr

@benjamingr:

Not at all. promisifys goal is to convert a callback API to a promises one. This is to get async/await working with callback APIs.

Given that we'd have to introduce a third API (in addition to the currently-internal but externalizable promisify and callbackify) to turn callback-based functions into .then-ables, I believe it would be best to focus on how best to expose the internal promisify function to users. One of the stated goals of exposing a Promise-returning API from core is to address the needs of upcoming async/await users, and I don't see us preserving any value for ourselves (or our users) by returning non-Promise objects.

@chrisdickinson

@chrisdickinson I tend to agree with that too but I mostly use promises so I don't have that problem.

I'd like to know if callback proponents like @Raynos or @rvagg are interested in such an API and if they intend to use async/await at all.

There are plenty of people who choose not to use promises. These people should be able to enjoy async/await

Choosing to use async/await but not Promises is like choosing to be a vegetarian but eating a big corn dog. 😉 Just because you can't "see" the meat (Promises) doesn't mean it's not there...

Benefits of making util.promised public:

Can be used for 3rd party libraries
Can ignore the core-provided promise modules
- Or could "replace" core-provided promise modules, technically, I guess

Cons of making util.promised public:

"Encourages" (at least in the example this issue proposed ) inefficient use of the function
- (i.e. proper usage would be const awaitableReadFile = promised(fs.readFile); async function() { await awaitableReadFile(...); } in order to avoid recreating the shim every time)
  - Memoizing promised would make it less horrible

@benjamingr

@benjamingr as a callback user I want whatever is the most performant.

I suspect async/await will be too slow and I care more about performance then I care about synchronous looking code.

@Raynos

@Raynos I presume that if it's implemented the same way as generators it would be fast. Slower than raw callbacks optimized, faster than things that use modules like async.

I doubt you'd have actual performance gains from it since you already probably avoid closures, pass only needed parameter and such - but I suspect most users who use closures in their code would see a small performance boost from async/await.

In either case, I doubt there would be a noticeable performance discrepancy between code written with await and code written without.

Are you saying that as a callback user this completely disinterests you? If it's within 20% speed of a "raw callback" solution would that change it?

We have everyone involved here, from the person implementing async/await in v8 to the people working on this PR to the people working in post-mortem and the error people.

I'm asking what you'd like to see "in your wildest dreams". Of course "I don't care about any of this or synchronous looking code" is also a completely valid response.

@benjamingr

@benjamingr

Please benchmark before making statements. I wouldn't be suprised if generators are an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE slower then callbacks.

If I can get a 2x perf boost from not using async/await then i'll use callbacks.

If async/await is fast then I'll use it. I think it's very nice, especially for authoring integration tests or implementing endpoints.

@Raynos

@Raynos this goes both ways. There are lots of benchmarks out there that show that callbacks and generators are much closer than that, e.g. the bluebird benchmarks. If you have evidence to the contrary please provide it.

@Raynos

@Raynos

Please benchmark before making statements. I wouldn't be suprised if generators are an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE slower then callbacks.

I wouldn't have been surprised either but if you consider their implementation as state machines they actually make for some pretty efficient code. Mainly because no closures are needed to write code that would have been convenient to write closures with. So I assume you would not gain a performance boost since you probably avoid nested callbacks anyway and name your callbacks - but everyone who nests callbacks will get a performance boost.

For example, I'd bet that:

for(var i = 0; i < arr.length; i++) {
    yield fn(arr, _); // _ substitutes CB and is a parameter is a generator
}

Is faster than a recursive alternative like:

function sequence(fn, arr, cb) {
    function run(results) {
       if(results.length === arr.length) cb(null, results);
       fn(arr[results.length], (err, data) => { 
            if(err) return cb(err);
            results.push(data);
            run(results);
       });
    }
    run([]);
}

You would not write code like sequence above, so again - I doubt you'd get a performance boost but I wouldn't rule them out altogether - especially in paths in the code that are not hot.

Now - if you were to use async/await what syntax would you like?

Naming callbacks doesnt get rid of any allocation, apis dont provide a way to pass a context object so closures are unavoidable

@petkaantonov

@petkaantonov I mean something like this:

function a(cb) {
    getV((err, data) => err? cb(err) : b(data, cb));
}
function b(v, cb) {
   // the closure over 'v' inside getV does not need to exist here, unlike if we nest
}

They're not completely avoidable, but it minimizes it significantly for the common user.

Related: nodejs/CTC#12

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`util.promised` - Callbacks and async/await #5

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chrisdickinson commented on Feb 15, 2016

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benjamingr commented on Feb 15, 2016

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`util.promised` - Callbacks and async/await #5